Comments on: When push comes to shove, thank God for self-love http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559 Wed, 01 Sep 2010 06:53:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Lee http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559&cpage=1#comment-20740 Lee Fri, 11 Aug 2006 17:49:54 +0000 http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559#comment-20740 People who condemn and try to scare people away from masturbation are like those guilt-tripping hellfire and brimstone churches I hear so much about. I figure they must exist since so many people talk about them, but I have yet to personally encounter any. I sometimes think aging radicals need there to be a repressed Puritanical society so they have something to fight. I grew up in a small, conservative, semi-rural town, so I don't think this is just my decadent blue-state experience talking. In quasi-defense of Furedi, I think he comes close to the truth in that I think making ourselves vulnerable and available to others is a big part of what life is about, especially in a Christian perspective. I would want to expand it beyond romantic relationships of course. And, I think to focus on "passion" confuses the byproduct with the thing itself. Passion may or may not accompany close relationships where we put ourselves at the disposal of others, but it's not the reason for them. People who condemn and try to scare people away from masturbation are like those guilt-tripping hellfire and brimstone churches I hear so much about. I figure they must exist since so many people talk about them, but I have yet to personally encounter any. I sometimes think aging radicals need there to be a repressed Puritanical society so they have something to fight.

I grew up in a small, conservative, semi-rural town, so I don’t think this is just my decadent blue-state experience talking.

In quasi-defense of Furedi, I think he comes close to the truth in that I think making ourselves vulnerable and available to others is a big part of what life is about, especially in a Christian perspective. I would want to expand it beyond romantic relationships of course. And, I think to focus on “passion” confuses the byproduct with the thing itself. Passion may or may not accompany close relationships where we put ourselves at the disposal of others, but it’s not the reason for them.

]]> By: Hugo http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559&cpage=1#comment-20739 Hugo Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:32:21 +0000 http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559#comment-20739 Gosh, this is the first I've heard of it either... though I remember a "Masturbate for Peace" thing going 'round the 'net at the start of the Iraq war three years or so ago. Camassia, your comment is dead on -- when working with teens in particular, a shaming, prohibitionist approach on masturbation is a doomed, disastrous one. It's the sort of thing that turns good things against the church. Somewhere between outright condemnation and an easy "go for it, it's harmless" lies the truth, and we've got to explore that truth carefully. Mileage varies a lot on this one. Gosh, this is the first I’ve heard of it either… though I remember a “Masturbate for Peace” thing going ’round the ‘net at the start of the Iraq war three years or so ago.

Camassia, your comment is dead on — when working with teens in particular, a shaming, prohibitionist approach on masturbation is a doomed, disastrous one. It’s the sort of thing that turns good things against the church. Somewhere between outright condemnation and an easy “go for it, it’s harmless” lies the truth, and we’ve got to explore that truth carefully. Mileage varies a lot on this one.

]]> By: Camassia http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559&cpage=1#comment-20738 Camassia Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:16:31 +0000 http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559#comment-20738 Thanks both! Rob, I like your line about how the "mind is probably our largest erogenous zone." I've read that historically Christian opposition to masturbation came from the fact that the ancients didn't know about ova, so they believed that sperm were little embryos that started to grow once they were "planted" in a woman. Therefore, sending semen to the wrong place was a kind of abortion. Now that that's been disproven, the question is less about objective evil than about where our minds and hearts are. Psych researchers have found that most sex fantasies people have are actually very vanilla, so I wouldn't condemn them categorically, but you're right that it's a pretty delicate business, especially in our media age. I was never terribly into porn, but I have found that over the last few years of churchgoing my appetite for mass media has steadily diminished, to the point where I watch practically no TV at all anymore. It's one of those things, though, where if somebody had said to me upfront, "You must stop watching TV!" I would have reacted pretty badly. That's why I generally favor approaches that are more positive and patient than strictly prohibitionist. It's funny that you haven't heard of the Masturbate-a-Thon, even though Furedi portrayed it as a major happening. Pundits often seem to inflate the importance of whatever they're denouncing. Thanks both! Rob, I like your line about how the “mind is probably our largest erogenous zone.” I’ve read that historically Christian opposition to masturbation came from the fact that the ancients didn’t know about ova, so they believed that sperm were little embryos that started to grow once they were “planted” in a woman. Therefore, sending semen to the wrong place was a kind of abortion. Now that that’s been disproven, the question is less about objective evil than about where our minds and hearts are. Psych researchers have found that most sex fantasies people have are actually very vanilla, so I wouldn’t condemn them categorically, but you’re right that it’s a pretty delicate business, especially in our media age. I was never terribly into porn, but I have found that over the last few years of churchgoing my appetite for mass media has steadily diminished, to the point where I watch practically no TV at all anymore. It’s one of those things, though, where if somebody had said to me upfront, “You must stop watching TV!” I would have reacted pretty badly. That’s why I generally favor approaches that are more positive and patient than strictly prohibitionist.

It’s funny that you haven’t heard of the Masturbate-a-Thon, even though Furedi portrayed it as a major happening. Pundits often seem to inflate the importance of whatever they’re denouncing.

]]> By: Rob http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559&cpage=1#comment-20733 Rob Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:25:20 +0000 http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559#comment-20733 Really interesting post. I think the 'Masturbate-a-Thon'; which living in the UK I didn't actually hear about, is symptomatic of a growing problem, certainly on this side of the pond. It's something I touched on in "<a href="http://www.threedays.co.uk/2005/11/03/make-pornography-history/" rel="nofollow">Make Pornography History</a>" so I'll let you read that rather than repeat myself. I think you a quite right that 'self love'; more often than not, is not risk or consequence free. Not only are you likely to be thinking about other people (Jesus describes this as adultery) but you also are putting expectations; often unachievable ones, on you future (or current) sexual partner. The mind is probably our largest erogenous zone. While I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with it is certainly a dangerous path to tread and one that is very difficult to walk safely. Always best to stay well away from the cliff edge when you see it coming. Just some thoughts. Great post. Really interesting post.

I think the ‘Masturbate-a-Thon’; which living in the UK I didn’t actually hear about, is symptomatic of a growing problem, certainly on this side of the pond. It’s something I touched on in “Make Pornography History” so I’ll let you read that rather than repeat myself.

I think you a quite right that ’self love’; more often than not, is not risk or consequence free. Not only are you likely to be thinking about other people (Jesus describes this as adultery) but you also are putting expectations; often unachievable ones, on you future (or current) sexual partner. The mind is probably our largest erogenous zone.

While I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with it is certainly a dangerous path to tread and one that is very difficult to walk safely. Always best to stay well away from the cliff edge when you see it coming.

Just some thoughts. Great post.

]]> By: Walrus http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559&cpage=1#comment-20732 Walrus Thu, 10 Aug 2006 02:12:13 +0000 http://notfrisco2.com/camassiablog/?p=559#comment-20732 I've just discovered by this blog and am delighted by the thoughtful and well-balanced approach I see. I will be back. I’ve just discovered by this blog and am delighted by the thoughtful and well-balanced approach I see. I will be back.

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